Vice President Kamala Harris’ meeting with Fox News’ Bret Baier wasn’t an interview; it was a competition. Baier tried to get Harris to give unsuccessful answers to the sometimes overloaded questions. Harris’ goal seemed to be to get through the 30-minute conversation without lapsing into nondescript word salad answers too often. I don’t know if I would call the final result a draw, but it definitely wasn’t a knockout.

Baier immediately jumped into action, pressing Harris to take responsibility for the Biden administration’s decision to overturn the Trump administration’s “Remain in Mexico” policy, which required asylum seekers to wait in Mexico while their cases were processed by U.S. immigration courts should be immediately reversed. Baier said the administration’s border policies have allowed 6 million undocumented immigrants to enter the country and asked if she regrets reversing the policy. Harris tried to pivot and countered that the Biden administration had been pushing for immigration reform in Congress from day one.

For Baier, it was fair and good journalistic practice to press the vice president on policies that her own government apparently understands have failed and that have presented a terrible image to the public. But when Baier repeatedly asked Harris if she felt she owed an apology to the families of Rachel Nungaray, Laken Riley and Rachel Morin — three young women who were allegedly murdered by migrants who crossed the border illegally — his question turned into demagoguery.

Of all the questions to ask the Democratic nominee, Baier then chose a culture war lightning rod and asked whether she supported publicly funded trans-affirming surgeries for prisoners — a focus of many pro-Trump campaign ads, but hardly the kind of “ “kitchen table” issue supposedly motivating economic populism among Trump’s base.

When Harris noted that former Trump administration officials had said Trump was unfit for office, Baier essentially acted like a Trump campaign surrogate: “If that’s the case, then why does half the country support him?” Why beats he you in many swing states? Why, if he is as bad as you say, does half of this country now support this person who could be the 47th President of the United States? Why is this happening?”

Harris responded that the election was never intended to be a walk in the park, to which Baier interjected: “So are they misguided, the 50%?” Are they stupid? What is that?” You could practically see the hamster spinning the wheel in Baier’s head, hoping like hell to get a healthy bite to rival Hillary Clinton’s infamous “basket of deplorables” comment from 2016 could.

But Harris was undeterred, saying she would never call the American people that, and reminding Baier that Trump is the one who routinely demeans Americans, like when he talked about it on Fox News’ “Sunday Morning Futures.” inner enemy.”

Baier immediately called for a clip of Trump’s interview with Fox News’ Harris Faulkner to be played, in which Trump made the live audience laugh by comparing himself to Al Capone and insisting that his “enemies within” were simply that Democrats who investigated him. The fact that Baier viewed Trump’s statement on Wednesday morning as credible and an appropriate counter to Harris’ statement is journalistic malpractice.

As one of the last remaining “hard news” correspondents at Fox News, Baier has earned a reputation as a well-prepared interviewer who won’t let politicians get away with filibustering. But compare the intensity of his questioning and fact-checking of Harris to the interview Baier conducted with Trump in June 2023. Sometimes he effectively pressured Trump, sometimes he was respectful, but what he didn’t do was carry water for the Democrats or regurgitate their talking points.

Harris, for her part, continues to struggle with interviews and clings to the campaign’s talking points like a life raft. She was particularly unconvincing when asked about President Joe Biden’s decline in mental abilities. But she had successful moments Wednesday night, especially when she spoke spontaneously about certain, indefensible things Trump has done and promised.

Fox News’ Dana Perino gave a predictable assessment after the interview that Harris was “getting hotter and angrier,” but that’s not how I saw it. She took part in an interview with a broadcaster where she is regularly denigrated as “stupid” and responded with a tone appropriate to Baier’s.

I’m not sure this interview will change anyone’s mind, and not much has been revealed. However, if you looked at it as a martial art, the result was inconclusive. Both sides landed punches, but neither managed to lift a championship belt.